Price Chopper - What's your opinion.
Posted February 14th, 2008 by jay_verdoorn
What's everyone's opinion on the possibility of a Price Chopper coming to the area?
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No to Price Chopper
There is absolutely NO reason for a 24-hour Price Chopper in Durham. Durham does not want it and Durham does not need it. Durham is a town not a city. We don't need route 17 to become the next Berlin Turnpike. Durham does not have the roads to accomodate this type of business nor do we have the police force, the wells, the septic, etc. This would ruin Durham.
I would sell my home
My family among other familes I'm sure would end up selling our homes and moving from Durham.
Misinformation
A little misinformation seems to go a long way! Facts are: It isn't 24 hrs a day (unlike a number of existing businesses on Main Street); the Town's plans and regs have long allowed for it; Durham does need in-town jobs and increased tax revenue; the experts agreed the roads and other resources can handle it (just as they have handled all the other development that has taken place); there are only two pieces of land on Main Street that could possibly support a larger store, so the "Turnpike" claim is just wrong. Wouldn't a food store be better than the other possibilities for this land?
If you are really that intolerant of change, and so firmly believe you have the right to decide what others may do with their property, then you should move to a more "controlled" country, and not just out of town.
Last-one-in Syndrome
Resistance to the PriceChopper seems to be a case of the "Last-one-in syndrome." Let me move into this lovely, semi-rural town and then let me slam the door behind me.
It seems ridiculous on many levels. First of all, we were all "interlopers" at one time. Having been in town for decades, I can tell you that many of the people who are so viciously opposed to the addition of a small supermarket are the same people who were branded "outsiders" who were going to ruin the rural character of our town.
Houses that now seem well-established were considered eye-sores, blight on the rural landscape. Now, we're just used to them. And, despite all the initial gloom and doom, these houses and people didn't ruin Durham. Many of them now are Durham's most active volunteers, civic contibutors.
The irony is ripe: newly-established Durham residents living on former farm land who don't want the PriceChopper to "ruin" our town. I've had some of these people actually say to me, "Oh, I'm okay with the Mobile and Dunkin' Donuts, but a PriceChopper, that's a whole different thing."
No, it's not. The resistance to both of those things was severe. They were going to ruin our town. They didn't.
The traffic isn't going away, supermarket or no supermarket. But the negative rural impact is way overstated. Don't believe me? Go to google earth and look at a satellite picture of Durham. There's plenty of forested and rural space. And, where there's not, there are homes of the very people who are opposed to the supermarket.
Price Chopper
It is quite likely that many of the folks that are dead set against allowing Price Chopper in Durham as a way to preserve our way of life are the same ones that are upset about man's contribution to global warming. I wonder about all those hydrocarbons being burned by those same folks driving to and from Wallingford or Middletown to do weekly grocery shopping.
Let's let our P&Z Commission do it's job in planning this development in such a way to minimize the impact on the surrounding areas and the traffic and let's do our part to reduce emissions that contribute to global warming.
The blight of new homes in Durham
The outcry against new jobs and tax revenue for Durham is mind boggling, especially when it concerns a viable business trying to locate in a pre-approved commercial zone. If the council disapproves the application then the question must be asked why they continue to approve the blight of new residential housing without the commercial tax base to support more children, more teachers, more police, more fire equipment, more road maintenance crews, more government.............and the list goes on. -DurhamCTTV.com
Price Chopper IS a 24-hour business
Sorry to confirm it but Price Chopper is a 24-hour store and I am sorry to say that I don't think anyone will run out to the store at 3:30 a.m. because they realized in thier sleep that they don't have any long grain rice in the house.
Other considerations would be open space, some sort of park like development or even new homes but come on a 24-hour store, I don't think so.
Rewritten History
Those who object to this proposal are attemting to re-write the Town's history. For nearly all of its existence the Town's "character" flowed from its Yankee entrepreneurial spirit and working-class population. Main Street was never a purely residential area. Nearly every building supported a shop, a farm, a manufacting enterprize, or a service business. Many of the residents were dirt farmers for whom progress coud not come fast enough. It was good fortune to them that jobs, taxes and traffic came to town. The Town's beauty arises from its ecclectic mix and adaptability. The affluent ruined the thing they came to find, sapping the spirit and energy of a working community, exerting economic force against those who lack economic power, overwhelming the landscape with sprauling residences, and arresting progress. The same has happened in Maine, Vermont, and many other places. The objectors' bucket of whitewash would have many believing Durham was a quaint, secluded village with the colonial residences of bluebloods all in a tidy row. Conquest over the working class is nearly complete, and we are all the loosers.
At What Cost?
Let's be honest. The Price Chopper would put the Durham Market out of business, seriously hurt Lino's and the Durham Pharmacy., Kim's Cottage Confections, etc. The traffic would negatively affect every resident's life. Is this worth a handful of jobs for Durham residents and $50 a year in tax savings? Not to me, a lifelong Durhamite. Yes, Durham is changing, and industry is not a bad thing. But not any industry at any cost.
Don't Set A Precedent
If Price Chopper comes in it will initiate the arrival of more of the same to this town. Big Box stores up and down Rte 17. Picture our historic Main St homes with 4 lanes of traffic inches from their front doors. That crystal ball view will certainly come true. This store will have no positive impact on Durham. It will benefit only the commuter traffic on Rte 17. And the jobs it creates will be completely devalued by those lost at Lino's, Durham Market, Durham Pharmacy and others. The $ 100-K of tax revenue will be blown away quickly by added resources the town will need to invest in for safety alone (One police officer and car alone equals $ 100-K). 600- townspeople were at the last P&Z meeting 99% of whom were clearly against the proposal. That's a large block of this town. The commission must hear the voters and vote this down. Dont be bullied by threats of lawsuit. We can fight this!!!
sometimes progress isn't progress
Durham has had a blue collar, agrarian past and a rural background. It's beyond me how folks think letting a big box grocery store into town is in keeping with these traditions. It's like saying since Durham has land we should let anybody build whatever they want here as long as it provides some form of menial employment and increased tax revenue.The Main Street of Durham is integral to the character of the town and we have an opportunity here to make sure the integrity of the community remains within a scale that doesn't destroy the nature of it's Main Street. If jobs and revenue are the sole deciding factors lets put up an oil storage facility or a prison. Lots of jobs and taxes are generated from these kind of businesses. The line needs to be drawn someplace and I feel a big box grocery store should be that line.
Planning and Zoning's "no plan" result
Planning and Zoning need to do just that...come up with a plan. They're the ones who approved the current zoning for this site, they're the ones who need to justify their decision to either the people of Durham or Silver Eagle. I don't envy their position.
Silver Eagle has proved their proposal and application were not well thought out and flawed. Their presentations were consistently misleading and deliberately contained misinformation they hoped would smooth over public opinion. When they perceived they truly might have a fight on their hands, Mr. Corona even resorted to bullying tactics, threatening the commission with visions of low income housing or adult themed stores.
Mr. Corona consistently made the point to the commission that they need to make their decision based on the facts, and not be swayed by public opinion. I agree....as stated in one meeting, Silver Eagle's application alone did not meet P&Z's regulations and the commission is mandated to refuse the application and the proposal on that alone.
I don't believe Durham residents are refusing to change. I'd welcome a well thought out, properly executed shopping center with smaller specialty stores that would keep public safety and the rural flavor of Durham in mind. And agreeing with an above mentioned post...I too will sell my home if this goes through....our taxes are sure to skyrocket to ensure our public safety if this goes through and I wont be able to justify the cost. Chester's looking pretty good these days.....Anyone wanna buy a 5 bedroom 3 bath home on a couple of acres?
I Agree with you 100%
Well said.
price chopper
First off, I suggest that the Town Times NOT invite anonymous postings. To do so allows one person to post numerous times, unfairly exaggerating the voice of one and making him or her appear more representative on an issue than is true. People should have the courage to stand by their own sentiments.
I add my "NO" to the debate on Price Chopper. It does not take much of a math or economics background to know that this corporate-owned box store would put our small and personal Main Street shops out of business within a very short period of time. Such small businesses are an enormous part of what gives Durham its flavor and personal warmth; they are owned and run by people who either live in town or have developed deep ties to our residents -- something that can never be true of a corporate-owned chain store, no matter what the rhetoric.
We should have learned something by now, having seen so many small towns across America essentially become strip malls on their Main Streets. The community fabric of our town, as well as its beauty, is what's at stake here.
Price Chopper
The Price Chopper is not for Durham residents. It is for Price Chopper.
The location is congested, good for them. Rt 17 and Rt 147. Lots of traffic. Good for them.
Royal Oak Park will require a street light. We need sidewalks in all our back roads since increased back road traffic zooming down them will be unsafe for pedestrian use due to the runoff.
Pollution of water ways. No public water or sewer. Markets produce a vast amount of waste cooking and processing food products.
Noise pollution. Trucks all hours of the day holding up traffic pulling on and off the narrow streets. The noise from the heat and air units on the building.
And what do you think
And what do you think American business was built on? Competition! I think a grocery store in Durham would actually have a trickle-down affect. I know personally when I go out of town to shop, I do other errands as well. Having a grocery store right here would keep me in town to shop at local businesses which I don't necessarily do now. And a strip mall? Where do you see lots of vacant lots on Main Street? I must be missing something; a venture that would make my life easier and lower taxes! My vote is YES to Price Chopper!
Thats the dumbest argument
Thats the dumbest argument yet.
Durham Big-Box Application DENIED!!!!
See todays Middletown Press for full story.
What a GREAT day in DURHAM!
Come On People!
Fist of all, that end of Main St. is not a picturesque area. If you drive by Grippo's at night you need sunglasses and Valero has the ugliest colors around. Don't forget those beautiful billboards. It seems that people don't see those anymore (they are used to them). Also, how about the various car repair facilities in the area. All so picturesque! Like I said a "nicely done” store set back with nice landscaping would bring some much needed taste to the area. It would also help with jobs, taxes and convenience. We’re not talking about a power plant here. I agree Durham Center has one of the nicest Main Streets around but the area north of the Historic District is already ruined.
Move?
Where are you going to move? Go ahead, run away from the big-bad grocery store. I bet most places you go there will be some old factory or industrial complex in town. And some might even have a Supermarket. Get a grip. How about some nice apartments or condos there. Or better yet, a retail store.
Price Whopper® Sucks
... for all the aforementioned reasons. We're already surrounded by stuff seven miles away. People have shot back letters whining that seven miles is too far. Since when? Unless people can get used to widening Rt 17 and accepting further development in like kind to Price Whopper®, which will happen once this case gets appealed 'til the town can no longer justify fighting it, I say the argument for this store is lame at best.
Try telling me that people here buy 100% from Durham Market, etc. They don't. Everyone knows these stores offer a backup plan when we run out of a staple such as milk. I don't think the odd $4 gallon jug of milk justifies allowing a Price Whopper® be built to cure the weak and down-trodden of their small town blues. Don't assume ANY chain will offer much better prices out here in the boons. They're gonna act like they're the only guy in town and charge accordingly. 'sides, Lino's and the like do offer cool specials regularly. $5.99 Rib Eyes, for example. Can BJ's match that? Nope.
I'd much rather see an indy steak house go up there on 17. Now THAT I'd patronize!
In the meantime, all of you who see Durham as a trap in the middle of nowhere should put your house on the market and live in New Haven.
Dumb??
Some inconvenient facts: I drive 40 minutes round-trip to do my grocery shopping, and gas is projected to hit $4 a gallon by the end of summer. We have recently created a committee to help Durham become a "greener" community, while insisting that leaving town to shop is no problem. Will people from surrounding areas go out of their way to frequent a medium-sized grocer in Durham? Doubtful. (However, daily commuters will likely stop and leave some of their money here.) I believe that more businesses in town will be helped by people shopping locally than the ones that may suffer... If the traffic situation at the northern end of Main Street is so bad, maybe we should all help out by not attempting to shop at Lino's! The much nicer Dahlmeyer property is now even more attractive as a "big box" opportunity - maybe Price Chopper tax revenue could have helped preserve it as open space? I wasn't born here, but since I arrived I've seen many changes. Those "McMansions" we love to hate are now the homes of friends. We have no choice but to change and grow - sensibly. I truly believe we will run out of objections to a large grocer moving in at some point - while spending tax dollars to defend an ultimately untenable position - and now is the time to decide the "where" and the "when." P.S. I'd like to sign my name, but considering the treatment of John Corona over this it would be unfair to my employer.
Anonymous
Anonymous remarks are rather pointless and as I teach my kids an action of a coward. The Town Times should not make this a forum of cowards running around spitting their ideas out towards people that have identified themselves.
Yes arent we all super heros and glamour models on the internet!
Scott Wheeler
Anonymous
So I guess you would rather have non-anonymous people going around spitting their ideas - like you are doing with your somewhat caustic and insulting attitude! I don't wear a banner advertising my preference for a political candidate when I go into a voting booth. The same concept falls in behind the idea of this forum. Citizens should be able to have a site that fosters free thinking and intelligent suggestions from people who would otherwise not speak, for whatever reason. Those could be fears of reprisals from their neighbors or co-workers, and from what I have seen and experienced at public hearings and BOE meetings that is quite a reality! For instance if a teacher, or other employee, in the District school system had an opinion that was opposing to their co-workers or supervisor, such as cutting funding to a program they thought was wasteful, you would not expect them to identify themselves and jeopardize their position. Also, I am assuming that you and that other identified person who opposed anonymous remarks are both on the popular side of heated arguments. It's easy to be the non-anonymous, hero when you’re on the safe-side of an argument. Be careful whom you call a coward; you might be referring to yourselves. I for one applaud this forum and think it is a great idea. Besides, from what I read so far, ignorant and exaggerated comments have come from both non-anonymous and anonymous people, but the best ideas seem to flow from the non-anonymous side. So keep it up - state your opinion and try to do it in a constructive way, it will make for a better forum to read and enjoy. Maybe some ideas may even influence those powers to be in town. Anonymous and proud of it.
Other price choppers may be
Other price choppers may be 24-hour grocers, but the previously proposed price chopper in Durham was set to be open only until 11 p.m. at the latest. It was a part of their agreement to help maintain the character of Durham, should the proposal be passed.
24-Hour Store
It may only be open to 11:00 pm for a short while but once they get their feet set in the ground in no time will they operate like any other Price Chopper in CT with operating 24-hours a day. My heart goes out to those families who live closest to that property. What a beautiful view they will now have of historic town of Durham. Anyone ever think about their safety, wells, septic, etc., and what a racket they will hear all night long with delivery trucks, garbage trucks, etc., what a way to bring up thier families.
Sensible Growth Needs a Plan ...
... therefore, it's time to whip out that Master Plan and review it.
Doncha think it's time to hire a planner to consult with us to get an active plan going? There ARE reasonable ways to grow, and it's OK to ask for help from professionals. Make no mistake, this town is growing. But I believe it's possible to grow without Durham and Middlefield becoming Cromwell, Jr. Not to knock that town, but ...
It would also do Joe Public some good to read some of the commentary in The Courant regarding regionalism. Strong arguments within those pages. Connecticut is already a pavement state as it is, I don't think we'd be serving future generations well by continuing our current thought processes. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Lastly, and this is not a Hippy-Dippy rant: Where, exactly, do we think we're going to get all our food from? The Midwest? China? Mexico? What happens when gas literally becomes unaffordable and that expense is reflected in food transportation costs? Hmmm ...
We have an "indy steak
We have an "indy steak house" - Time Out Taverne. And for me the closest grocer is closer to 10 miles - a more expensive drive all the time... Are we not trying to become "greener"?
The Time Out Tavern Is Not a Dedicated Steak House.
I'd rather not see anything of great consequence go on either contested property, but something will eventually. A Master Plan and Compromise are the key terms here.
Greener? How is adding yet another needless store going to cut emissions? You mean to tell me nobody here is capable of picking up groceries on their way home from work? What happened to planning? Is everyone doing their business nowadays spur of the moment, or are we planning our trips accordingly to avoid unnecessary gas waste? Don't forget the emissions delivery trucks will bring into town, as well as those from out of town who'll stop on their way up and down Rt17.
I'm not one of those "just moved in and slam the door" types, just a proponent of sensible growth. Again ... think "regionally". Few people work immediately in this area, therefore I don't buy the distance argument.
I'll bet those who complain most about fuel costs are the same ones in SUVs who ride my bumper constantly around town. If people aren't willing to drive at reasonable speeds in order to conserve gas, then they shouldn't complain about gas prices. We made this problem, we own it. Driving cars the way we have for the past 90 years is a privilege that's about to change, and we've had all the time in the world to deal with it. Now it's payback time, and procrastination is supposed to hurt.
a thought
Be there.
I know this is over 2
I know this is over 2 months, late, haha, but I had to put in my two cents. Price Chopper does NOT have a Pharmacy, so Durham Pharmacy would be fine. No one is going to quickly run into PC to get something small, they go to a smaller store, or the Pharmacy. Durham Market is OVERPRICED. It is nice to look at, but honestly, does anyone here actually grocery shop there. It is small, overpriced, and the cashiers arent always the nicest people there. The small mom and pop shops arent what they used to be, it seems there is no business that is out there for the people. Durham market is no exception. Lino's market is one place that will not be greatly affected. Lions is, to most people, a deli. They have cheaper prices than WALMART, and it is right in town. People won't stop going to Lino's because of its warm atmosphere, low prices and great inventory, basically the exact opposite of Durham market. And anyways, who even goes to Kim's Cottage Confections, if you poll durham residents, I would bet that less than 60% have ever even heard of that place.
Peapod delivers.
This may seem overly simple, but you no longer have to go grocery shopping. Peapod will deliver to you. It takes about 3 minutes to all our shopping for the week. It comes to us. We don't really need a store here. About the jobs, I see Help Wanted signs all over town. It deosn't seem like we really need the jobs.
Peapod delivers
Maybe there are people who are not as well off as you and can't afford the cost of home delivery which I am sure does not come cheap with the price of gas. Also people do need jobs - deceit paying jobs - not burger flippers at minimum wage and no healthcare.
Peapod is very affordable
For the $6.95 delivery fee Peapod is very affordable and most of the time Peapod offers free delivery. No one can beat that with the price of gas!
Peapod delivers
Actually that is the price for groceries over $100. For less, it's a $10.00 delivery fee. Also, In both cases their is a Fuel surchange of $1.28.
I, for one, do NOT want a
I, for one, do NOT want a Price-chopper in town. You say how Dunkin Donuts didn't ruin the town, how it is the same, but it is definitely on a different scale. there is an entirely amount of traffic between the 2. you are talking about basically hurting 2 long-time existing businesses - Lino's and Durham Market. I can also understand the need for a tax base. but is putting a supermarket the answer? it will, in the long run, put these 2 businesses out of business and THAT will change the feel of the town. Dunkin Donuts did not hurt an already-existing business of donut-selling.
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