Did the Durham P&Z make a mistake?
Posted July 28th, 2008 by sue_vanderzee
A respondent to an earlier Question of the Week about the rejection of a property purchase for a senior/community center made a point about local government. In part: "It seems to me that all they want to do is spend, while doing everything possible to keep new businesses out of town (like a super market, perhaps) so that the full brunt of their spending must be borne by individual homeowners... Build the grand list, then come talk to me about new spending initiatives." Considering the ever-escalating price of gas and the reliance of the town on residential taxpayers, did the P&Z do the wrong thing by denying the supermarket application earlier this year?
Absolutely not. Durham does
Absolutely not. Durham does not want nor need a supermarket and that was made very clear at the meetings. The town of Durham was SAVED with P&Z denying it.
Taxes
This comment sums up the problem in Durham perfectly. The town continues to build homes, but no other infrastructure. Having one police officer for the entire town is ridiculous. We can afford no more though because we are not expanding our grand list. The "character" of Durham was lost when we began allowing 700,000 dollar homes to be built with regularity. Taxes will continue to go up because we need to educate the children and provide services to all Durhamites. We need to also bring in some business to counteract that.The two biggies, the market and the crematorium were both met with resistance. Whether we like it or not, Durham has already changes, we need to accept this and fix the continuing problem of rising taxes with some more industry.
P&Z made a big mistake
I'm glad that Mr./Ms. Anonymous speaks for the entire town. I sure wanted a super market, and even more so now than when P&Z was deliberating given the current price of fuel. But whether it's a super market or something else, if the town wants to keep spending money on niceties like senior centers and new high school tracks, P&Z needs to be proactive in looking for significant additions to the grand list, not quashing everything that comes their way. This homeowner is tapped out. The well is dry. I'm sure there are many other homeowners in Durham who feel the same.
A Lack Of Vision
Many years ago the Planning and Zoning Commission mastered the word "no." So well did it learn this lesson that there is no longer any area left which can realistically be rezoned to commercial or industrial from residential. Residential construction has spread throughtout town, leaving us without potential to expand economic development potential. Mr./Ms. Anonymous and his/her friends have learned that they can control those who have too long been at the helm with their shouts and threats.
There are only a few sites currently zoned for commercial which remain vacant. If a grocery store, with food, jobs, and tax benefits can't use one of these, what is the PZ's vision for these precious sites? What is our economic plan for the future? The silence is deafening.
We need new people to lead the planning process-people with integrity, courage, and vision for the future. Maybe new people can't reverse a half dozen decades of "no," but by being proactive they can help mitigate the tragedy in our future with innovative ideas.
P&Z Decisions
Anyone equating allowing a large supermarket as some financial tax windfall is uninformed. The $ 100,000- in additional annual tax revenue the town would receive would be immediately consumed simply by the addition of another resident trooper (salary and 1/2 the car easily exceeds $ 100-K). Obviously the additional burden on other services and needs to expand would demand a lot more money from the town. The jobs created would all be minimum wage. Also, there'd likely be no job net gain as Lino's, Durham Pharmacy, Durham Market, etc jobs would all be lost.
Economic develpoment needs to be right-fitted to the town. We can't go just by the money trail. The negative impact of the Price Chopper greatly outweighs any benefit. Don't let Main St Durham become Washington St Middletown.
How Wrong You Are, Right For Durham
Revenue from the store was NET. The Town's expenses to support the business were already subtracted out. The State Police have already said the Town needs a second police officer now. How can you blame the store for this expense? Are Lino's, the Pharmacy, and the Market paying their cashiers more than minimum wages? Don't some people in town need those jobs to offset the high cost of living in this dead-end town? There won't be manager jobs at the grocery store? How do the convenience and specialty stores manage to florish in other towns? Have you been to Southside Market in Middletown-less than a mile from Super S&S?
Right for Durham feels empowered to speak for the thousands of residents who need and want the store. Right for Durham isn't serious about economic development. That's why he/she argues against following the ''money trail"-because money isn't his/her problem and he/she doesn't understand the ECONOMIC in economic development. A monoclass of the wealthy is what he/she finds right for Durham. And he/she isn't very concerned with the facts either. Like the Pirate Code, his/her "facts" are more like guidelines.
But, ok, Right for Durham, your handle begs the question. If the store isn't right for
Durham, what is? Thought so.
Response
Batman refers to "thousands of residents who need and want the store". Where were the thousands at the meetings supporting the store? At the last meeting held at CRHS there were about 600- people there. There were less than 10 people there supporting the store. The vast majority were there supporting the strong argument(s) against the store. These arguments were most eloquently presented by many Durham citizens. P&Z was clearly motivated by sound rational reasons (safety and otherwise) to deny the application in unanimous voting. Does Batman want a 4 lane road on Main St. That would be the eventuality. This talk of elitists against this proposal is totally bogus. Easy to throw out there and completely off-base. What's right for Durham is what's right for all residents of the town.
Wrong Again, Mr./Ms. Right, But What Is "Right"?
Check the Census data-the population of Durham is about 6,600. Do 600 speak for 6,600? Could a little armtwisting have gone on among those 600, Pollyanna? Could the PZ and general population have been more frightened by the mob of friends, neighbors, local business owners, and politicals than "motivated by sound rational reasons"? Would you want to have to buy your food the day after the meeting from a guy who rants and raves that your actions as a PZ member could deprive him of the monopoly he currently enjoys? How about a checkup next day from the irrational local doctor who lives around the corner from the store site? Could it be that people forced by circumstances to shop at the Market might be a little reluctant to speak in favor of lower prices and greater selection? That might be what you mean by the "otherwise" following "safety" in your extensive list of reasons to deny the store. Leaders of the opposition weren't the doctors, lawyers, academics, and wealthy business people and close relatives and friends of PZ members they purported to be? Maybe Good and Wilkensen aren't the elitist doctor snobs they seem to be?
The 4-lane road/Washington Street analogy just doesn't hold water-literally. Washington Street has the magic of public sewers. Do you see any sewer manholes on Main Street, Durham?
But you dodge the question again, Right for Durham: what then is "right"?
Frustrated !!
My family and I moved into Durham 15 years ago from out-of-state. The taxes here are ridiculous. The narrow mindset is ridiculous. If it weren't for the schools, we wouldn't have moved here. The town has nothing else to offer, thanks to those who insist on still living in the dark ages.
I laugh at the complaining about trucks delivering stuff to the potential grocery store. Yet I spend countless extra minutes every day following school buses that stop every 10 feet, or follow a tractor for 5 minutes with no possibility of passing. If we can follow a darn tractor, we can follow a truck headed to the grocery store.
Those who oppose the grocery store, or any other larger business for that matter, aren't single parents with full time jobs who, God forbid, need something after 8 PM and have to drive to Middletown or Wallingford for something.
And NO, I won't to get Peapod to delivery my groceries. I still want to pick out my own stuff. Stuff that isn't triple the price b/c my snotty stay-at-home lazy neighbors who don't even leave their houses wanna spend all that spare time they have fighting a fight that's just so stupid.
In 15 years I STILL detest the smell of cow manure - no matter what direction you enter our town. That's a sure sign of how classy we are, now isn't it?!
No Rights For Commercial Owners Means More Homes In Durham
As an owner of commercial property in town, I am appauled at the treatment my fellow commercial and industrial owners are receiving. No owner of commercial property, I have learned, is entitled to ANY use of their commercial property without a "special permit" from a small group of zoning deities elected by residential property owners. Even when an owner, such as the grocery store property owner, wants to build for a use supposedly allowed in that zone, he must run a gauntlet of mushy criteria like "harmony with the neighborhood," face a crowd of residential owners who want nothing to happen, ever, and persuade a group of members who are in bed with their fellow residents. Residential owners seem to have all the rights, and we commercial owners seem to have none. Yet the residential owners want us to carry their school costs on our backs. It is time to use the weapons available to us. If this town loves residential devlopment so much, it deserves more! If you give me no rights, you leave me no choice.
Peapod
Peapod is the best thing since sliced bread. Oh, and speaking of sliced bread, it costs the same in the store and if you order it on-line and have it delivered .
There is nothing "Snotty" about ordering via peapod. It allows me to be with my kids more and i pay a measly $6.00 to have someone do my shopping, bring it to my house, and unload it onto my counters instead of juggling my 3 year old and 8 month old, try to remember to get everything I have a coupon for and stick to my list.
Snotty? No-just really smart! As a single mom, I would think you would take advantage of such a great service. I've saved so much money by shopping strickly what's on sale (you can pull up all the specials on one page and add them to your cart) and all i have to do is type in the name of whatever I have a coupon for and it pulls it up on line and adds it to my cart. I never used coupons as efficiently before while in the store since I could hardly ever find exactly the one that I had the coupon for.
Anyway, give it a shot. And maybe tone down the bitterness. It's unflattering here in Durham....
If it was wrong, honey, it never felt so right!
We were very upset after we moved here last September to hear of a possible grocery store coming to town. I lived here as a single woman in 2000-2001 and I loved running the lovely roads of this town. I dreamed of coming back to Durham so I could raise a family in a quiet, rural town that values open space, education and community spirit. I was so happy and proud to buy a house here with my husband and 2 daughters.
Then we heard the news and I knew it would be the beginning of the end. I grew up in Cromwell in the 70's when we had 14 farms and my graduating class had 90 people in it. I cannot drive through Cromwell without feeling pain my gut. I remember being so happy as child when we got a McDonalds. Well, everything that followed devoured all the beautiful land and left crowded streets and parking lots with horns honking and people in a big,big hurry.
I love Durham but if it's going to become like a mini-Cromwell or Middletown, we will seriously consider relocating. Chester still values what it has there so that would be an attractive option. And, if that happens, and the people like me and my family leave-people who respect others, are lawabiding and kind and diplomatic, who will come and replace us? Have you looked at the crime rate in Middletown lately?
We moved here on purpose, not by chance. This is our spot of the country that is "not like them". We're not about big business/big dollars. We're about living a peaceful life in the country, being neighborly, walking with our childen down the street after dinner and being civic minded.
Likely Durham could use a
Likely Durham could use a medium-sized grocery store. Maybe down on Route 17 or Route 68 somewhere. The proposed placement behind Valero was, I feel, the deciding factor--a worse location could not have been found. I agree with P&Z's decision; as I've said before, "Not this, not there."
If "Frustrated" abhors Durham's tractors, manure, and snotty, lazy neighbors, perhaps s/he would enjoy a condo in Meriden, for instance. Now, that's class!
Durham P&Z
P&Z did the right thing.... folks who live here enjoy the proud New England heritage
that Durham protects for future generations....
Since the modern invention of the automobile, the trip to full service supermarkets -
9 to 12 miles away - depending on your choice, is really quite simple.
If you need to shop nearby-in town .. please see Lino's or The Durham Market. Yes they are not open 24/7 (thank goodness!) ... learn to think ahead just a bit ...
This is not the city and you'd better have few items stashed in the cupboard in case of storm or power loss....OK the in-town stores don't have everything ... but if YOU are not frequenting these stores at least once a week - you probably should move closer to a city that can fill your needs.
Need more parking? Try Lyman's .. it is FAR away in Middlefield ... but they have the freshest produce and deli items once you get there. (Lyman's has been the good steward of over 1200 acres of beautiful property for ALL to enjoy) The baked goods are always worth the 5 MINUTE trip.
If you don't support Lyman's (buy from them) and all that they do for our region ... again move closer to Wally mart.
Get to know your neighbor ... if you are shut in and need something ... most Durhamites will gladly help you - if you ask nicely.
When did American's get so weak? .... I know everyone is busy ... but I can't fathom the need for a supermarket 3 miles from you instead of 9 !
Again if that's important to you .... go ahead and move closer to a big store... Your house will sell because of Durham's proud heritage for preservation and the great school system.
Or you could shop for your big weekly order from the supermarket (15 to 20 minutes away) ..then buy the things you run out of from your friends (Lino's) and neighbors (The Mount's) in between weekly supermarket visits.
I could go on forever about all of things that Durham offers without a supermarket
(that would cost us tax payers more than the town would net in revenue)
Just one more thing: someone posted negatives about Senior Center NO vote ... there is a much better deal on the table for us all .. stay tuned.
Thanks ...
WHY DO WE HAVE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY?
Why do we have commercailly-zoned property on Main Street? We have it to help pay for those expensive schools you love so much(the ones with the Heroin problems and low test scores) and other town expenses. We have it to provide jobs so that people can live and work in the same community. We have it to promote convenience for our community. We have it because Main Street is a poor place to live. We have it because, without it, there would be even more housing and even more expense for residential owners to pay. You, residential owner, induced me to buy my commercial property when you and your fellow residential owners zoned it commercial. But it seems you don't really mean what you say.
Who is the fool here: Me, for believing that property zoned for commercial could actually be used for commercial purposes, or You for zoning it commercial and then forgoing all the benefits my property could provide for you? Why can't I tell you to stop building more houses that drive up my taxes, but you seems to be able to tell me that I can't use my property for any economically-viable purpose so you can "run the lovely roads?" One of us is a crazy fool, and I don't think it is me.
Heroin
That is a ridiculously low blow towards our school system, There is the presence of drugs in every school, including Mercy, Xavier, Coginchaug, Vinal, Hopkins, etc. Our school system does well,even though there are some students who continue to make poor decisions.
It All Comes Down to Tax Increases
As I've stated before, I would have liked the convenience of a supermarket in town, but whether or not we have one isn't going to drive me out of town. In the end what is most likely to drive me out of town is runaway taxes. If the town government wants to spend like Avon, then Rte. 17 and/or Rte. 68 needs to look like Rte. 44. If the town wants to retain its rural New England flavor, then taxes need to stay at a level that our tight-fisted rural New England forefathers would have approved of.
I'd like to see a mandatory 2.5% cap on the annual increase in the mill rate (with an appropriate adjustment made in the year of a town-wide revaluation). To override the cap would require a positive vote of a majority of all registered voters in town (not just a majority of those showing up at the poll on the day of the referendum to override). The cap would take precedence over the separate vote on the Regional School District budget. Durham could pay no more to the Regional School District than the maximum available within the cap after taking into account the cost of other town services.
I think that a cap on the mill rate would make the debate over whether building Durham's grand list with more commercial development is a good or bad idea a whole lot more interesting.
Still hoping for "Main Street Market"
(I recall Price Chopper saying they would agree to use their original name if they built in Durham.) Like many others in town, I didn't speak up publicly when P&Z was considering the issue. I thought the board would make its decision based on whether or not a supermarket was a reasonable use of the property, not the objections of over-reacting neighbors - and considering the treatment of Silver Eagle's attorney, it seemed wise to keep my wishes to myself. The main objection to the project seemed to be the issue of increased traffic. I truly don't see where all this additional traffic would come from. Will people from Wallingford and Middletown leave their numerous shopping options to visit a medium-sized grocer in Durham? We have no hardware store (another major need, in my opinion), no mainstream clothing stores or retailers of home goods... Really nothing to draw shoppers here, although Route 17 commuters would certainly stop and leave some of their money in Durham. While Lino's and the Durham Market might be forced to become more competitive, I would still shop at those places - Lino's for Italian specialties and meats, Durham Market for convenience when I need just a few items. And I would do more shopping at other small venues in town, if I weren't leaving town for groceries. I like to shop locally, especially with the price of gasoline (it has come down a bit, but will surely go up again - past even the recent outrageous prices). We're trying to become "greener," and shopping locally is a step in the right direction, with the added benefit of helping all our local taxpayers - the pharmacy and pizza place, the haircutters and pet shop, the package stores and gas stations... I hear that Price Chopper has a reputation for buying up other undeveloped properties, not to build on but to keep out competition! Sounds perfect for Durham! I hope it's not too late to reconsider.
Its So Crazy
I just can't understand this. Our town is throwing tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees at an effort to KEEP OUT a business that will offer food at lower prices and with greater selection. And instead of collecting their tax money we are spending tax money to fight them. Is someone being paid off by the local businesses? It is just crazy-no sane person doesn't want convenience, lower prices, and lower taxes. Maybe we need to give the boot to the idiots who are leading this insanity. Let's have a true, careful poll of what the majority of people in this town really want-not just the few bigmouths with the fat wallets. I, for one, won't forget this issue when election time rolls around.
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